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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.10 10:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since POS's are vital to w-space dwellers, they should be designed around w-space and not null sec.
I would rather have force fields that docking games. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.10 10:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Two Step, do you know if the new POS's are being designed to incorporate any future WIS gameplay? I want to play space poker with my corp mates while we wait for scouts the report on potential targets.
Also, please remember to ask ccp to let us swap to a different clone in w-space (not jump to empire) |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.10 12:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote: The only challenges with the new POS are how do we find them and can any cloues be given on how active they are. CCP needs to find a design solution for those challenges.
You use dscan to pinpoint the pos to a moon and then you click warp... |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.12 00:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sorry if someone has already said this but i don't think it will matter if we can't tell if the new POS's are offline or not, using d-scan.
Haven't people been asking for the ability to salvage/hack/unanchor abandoned POS's for a while now?
If they let us do that there won't be an issue because nobody is going to intentionally leave a place holder pos somewhere if it can be stolen.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.13 14:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nice blog. Thanks for taking time to highlight some of the concerns people are having.
The more I think about the "no force-field" thing the more acceptable it becomes, providing CCP design the whole POS system perfectly.
The current pos force field makes life easier in some cases and that isn't what wormhole space is supposed to be about. For example, when you siege a POS, the occupants have until the tower enters reinforced to fly to the sma and destroy all their ships and fly to the labs and take all their BPO's, which is all done in complete safety.
Now if there was no force field then the people under siege would be forced to field a fleet (see what i did their?!) that can make it to their labs to get their BPO's or disrupt the attackers blockade long enough to get their ships to safety.
However, I still don't want the docking games we see in k-space brought to w-space were the skill is simply in knowing timer mechanics better than the next guy. I would prefer if there was no pos forcefield and no undock/dock timers but in their place we get a "docking area".
This "docking area" could be a very small docking port that is protected by a small forcefield and can only be entered with the correct standings. The main idea being that you can undock from the pos and see what's out there. It would also allow nully fit t3's to do what they were designed for and escape from a bubbled pos without the fear of being insta-locked.
The catch could be that overcrowding the small docking area would carry a huge risk of people being bumped into enemy fire by their own corpmates. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.13 14:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nash MacAllister wrote: Docking games. Hell no. This whole idea is asinine and if you make w-space like k-space, people will simply leave w-space, and I think a large portion may just leave Eve altogether. W-space is a refuge from the bs that goes on in the rest of Eve and to take that away would be catastrophic.
This.
I moved to w-space to get away from the broken bullshit mechanics of k-space and i wouldn't be playing eve now, if it wasn't for wormholes.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.14 11:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Joachim Weiss wrote: I must say that the idea of limiting POS size in wormholes is beyond silly. The idea to reduce ECM on a POS sounds nice, but even that addresses a problem that I don't think really exists. If someone wants that POS dead bad enough, there are plenty of ways and plenty of people who can do the job. Let their false sense of security be their consolation for living in silly little baby wormholes.
I agree and i think limiting large POS's to high class wormholes at this stage would be totally unreasonable.
Punishing people for living in a c1-c3 after they have spent years developing and securing a wormhole system is not the way to go. Everyone should have to same abilities and benefits as they do now (including static pos defenses) but people in C4-C6 should get additions benefits/features. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.14 12:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote:POS hit points or defences capabilities should scale down in lower class wormholes, but other features should be the same. Higher class wormholes are farther away from empire space and station services but that's a trade off we accept when moving there to get better rewards (both in PVE and PVP).
If they system was originally designed that way sure but the fact is they weren't and we all had to deal with the ****** POS system.
It's not impossible to take out a pos in low end wormholes no matter how we defended they are. It's all down to the attackers determination.
Should they limit how many caps you can have in a c5/6 to make it easier for small c5/6 corps to siege a POS too? |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.14 13:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah well week long reinforcement timers are a stupid idea too. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
375
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Posted - 2012.08.14 15:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dino Boff wrote: POS fights shouldn't be about structure grinding, it should be about who's willing and able to fight for it.
And you shouldn't have to bring a blob to reinforce a POS...
That's a bit of a contradiction don't you think?
You can't nerf low class wormholes without encouraging blob warfare in WH space. Is that what you want?
It's not like people are going to say "oh this POS we want to siege is only in a C2 so we don't need as may pilots." on the contrary, they will bring more pilots because the priority is to reinforce the POS as quickly as possible.
I would rather people be able to jump caps into our C2 than be forced to live in a small pos that's going to be blobbed to **** every weekend.
And yes, i realize i'm talking about future changes applying to the existing pos system but we don't have the details for the new pos system yet.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
376
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Posted - 2012.08.14 19:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nycodemis wrote: Two step, you were elected in hopes that our voices, through you, would lead to the betterment of W-Space as a whole and all of the corps within... not just AHARM and C5/C6 dwellers.
The man has a point Two Step. Can you honestly say that you are doing your best to represent all of the wormholers that voted for you and not just the people in the upper level wormholes?
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
377
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Posted - 2012.08.15 00:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Two step wrote: Defenders in lower class wormholes already have the tremendous advantage of being able to build their own capitals, and as people have pointed out, they have even easier access to highsec, so they should be able to build as many of them as they want. I don't like this, and I don't see any reason that they should also have the full POS defenses and shield HP that someone in a C5 has. The simplest reason for this is because *any* attacker is going to be bringing *far* less DPS to shoot a POS in a C2 or C1 than they could bring with one or two dreads in a C5 or C6. A single dread is somewhere around 10,000 DPS (and DPS at a range that can hit a POS), in a C1 where you are limited to BC and below you are talking about 600 DPS per ship max. That means each dread is 16 or so pilots worth of DPS.
It's logic like this that baffles me.... You make out as if people in low class wormholes have some huge advantage. They are not the ones earning tens off billions on an average sleeper op to spend on filling their system to the brim with capital ships, that they can then jump out into other systems to have a little fun.
Just because you are used to using caps to reinforce a pos now, doesn't mean c1-c4 should be nerfed to allow you to do it in the same time but with sub caps. You are the exception, not the rule.
The fact is, we all knew what we were getting into - you could either go into a high class wormhole with less minimal ristrictions, massive rewards and massive risk or, you could go into a lower class wormhole with with al lot of restrictions less reward and less risk of being steam rolled... And now it looks like you and CCP feel that low class wormholers should be suseptable to blobs too?
Maybe you have a point if we are just talking about C1's that you can't fit a battle ship in, but that's not what you are saying. If we're not careful here, w-space will end up just like null sec where a few alliances dominate. A lot of people live in w-space to get away from that.
You are right. I am free to elect who i want but i elected you because i liked your attitude and thought that you would fairly represent all wormholers and not just a spoilt few. CCP are the developers so I don't really care for your personal vision and desires for eve, I just want you to fairly represent the communities concerns/views. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
384
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Posted - 2012.08.15 11:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Damn, I don't know what to think anymore... Clearly we are getting nowhere. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
386
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Posted - 2012.08.15 13:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Skippidipp wrote:With no FF there will be no more sucideing of ships when you lose an invasion, thats why all 5-15 member corporations are complaining. There POS will be that more atractive for invasions. Don't start with the FF is so great, cause thats a load of crap. Everyone that has to type in password every time they want to go in to a POS knows this. And the rest of the FF mechanics is just plain stupid. If CCP had a better designer back when POS first hit TQ, we wouldn't be stuck with this **** for all the time that we have. And yea, there would be no FF. And docking games? Serious? What about FF games? How many of you that complains about docking games have ever done an invasion or been invaded?
Stop filling your POS with everything you own and you should be fine after they change them.
Wow, your corp really hands out passwords and requires you to use that each time you log? that must suck balls. Is this the norm?
I don't think you are putting enough thought into it...
1. Kill/loss mails are now generated when you self-destruct (i think) so that issue is now irrelevant. 2. CCP are talking about not allowing you to dock at all in low class WH so without FF how is this going to work? 3. We are not talking about the docking games we typically see in k-space. As has already been pointed out, the POS deference will either force the attacker to bring a crap load of logi or sit way off in a sniper fleet blapping everything that undocks. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
387
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Posted - 2012.08.15 14:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Archdaimon wrote:Rek Seven wrote:
Wow, your corp really hands out passwords and requires you to use that each time you log? that must suck balls. Is this the norm?
When members have private pos not everyone else can enter that pos without pw. It's currently the only way to protect members from other members. It is also a way to avoid complete paranoia and give a new chance for new members to join our alliance without them stealing all the ****.
Ah well, i guess it makes sence if everyone has their own pos. We just require all our members to provide their home address incase they need to get beaten up in the future. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
388
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Posted - 2012.08.15 15:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Two step wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Are you saying that you only consider your community to be the people who read and comment on your blogs and that everyone else is irrelevant? Yes, of course that is what I am saying. Come on, the stupid attacks are totally pointless, and just serve to undermine your other points. The reason I brought that stuff up is because I don't own a time machine. The only way I can present the views of w-space people is if those people tell me what their views are. I was totally clear both before and after the election about what I wanted from a POS redesign, and if you didn't speak up *before* the summit, how on earth was I supposed to know how you felt?
Firstly, that was a sincere question and you made it sound like that was what you are saying, so don't get personal and start calling me stupid because i ask you to clarify, rather than flying off the handle and making wild accusations that you don't give a crap about what anyone thinks.
Secondly, I try to keep up with what's going on with the CSM as much as possible but i must have missed your proposals to remove FF and force us into small gankable pos's. If i knew that at the time of the elections i wouldn't have got my entire alliance to vote for you. My bad.
But all this arguing is pointless. All people want you to do now is convey are feelings to CCP and put your personal views to one side because it is clear that you are out of touch with the rest of us. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
388
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Posted - 2012.08.15 16:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Two step wrote: As for the big fish comment, that is already true. Right now, many of the larger w-space alliances could kick just about anyone out of c1-c4 space. The only reason they aren't doing that right now is because they have no reason to do so. I don't see how making them more vulnerable to smaller groups changes that in any way.
Bear with me because i am trying my hardest to understand here...
You are admitting that there are multiple entities that can evict anyone they want from C1-C4, and you don't see a problem in making it effortless for them to do this by nerfing the defense of low end pos's? I
Two step wrote: Do you know how much everyone in AHARM is wishing someone would step up and even attempt to invade?
Let me ask you this - How many capital ships do you have in your home system?
I bet you won't/can't answer that question but i bet it's over 20.
If anyone wanted to evict you they would need a fleet that could match yours in a head on battle. How long would this take the attackers to do and then explain to me how this is any different than if a group was to invade a C2 which required them to use multiple wormholes to get their BS fleet in? |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
389
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Two step wrote: The first part of the question may have been sincere, but the "everyone else is irrelevant" part clearly wasn't. As I said above, I wouldn't be here responding to this thread if I didn't consider all of you my community. After all, the reason this forum even exists is because I asked CCP for it over and over and over again.
Of course, after the first paragraph, you drop right back into unconstructive mode, so I will not be responding to that.
Telling CCP "People like Forcefields" isn't all that helpful if they are set on getting rid of them. What is helpful is to talk to them about the reasons people like (and dislike) forcefields. That is what I have been doing, and what I plan on continuing to do. My job is not to design the new POS system, it is to tell CCP what people want from a new POS system.
Jesus Christ Two step, i don't want to sit here and aregue with you but what do you expect when you glosse over the main point of peoples posts and label them as "unconstructive"?
Clearly you have not thought about these new POS mechanics enough as you are unable to come up with any convincing arguments to back up your views. So i'm no longer interested in your opinion (which actually saddens me) so i just hope you stick to what you said: "My job is not to design the new POS system, it is to tell CCP what people want from a new POS system." |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
389
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Posted - 2012.08.15 19:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
^^ well i have no problem with docking... |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
389
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Posted - 2012.08.15 19:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
lol i would rather dock than just sit behind a pos shield that causes my frame rate chug like crap. But i also accepts that scouts should be able to see that i am online and what ship i have in the docking bay. |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
395
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Posted - 2012.08.16 16:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think he means invisible from d-scan. You would be able to scan the POS down and see it when on grid... I think it's an okay idea and i would love if POS's had more abilities like this other that shoot and tank. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
395
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Posted - 2012.08.16 18:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Rek Seven wrote:I think he means invisible from d-scan. You would be able to scan the POS down and see it when on grid... I think it's an okay idea and i would love if POS's had more abilities like this other that shoot and tank. I want to fit a Doomsday on my POS How is it a good idea? The very first time someone opens up into you they will d-scan, if they don't find the pos on d-scan then they will drop probes at which point they will find your POS. After that they will have the information in whatever tool they use for mapping, be it siggy, wormnav and many other intel tools. So we are talking about a feature that needs to be coded and implemented and that will be helpful in a handful of scenarios / situations. Seems like completely useless feature.
It might not be a great idea but i don't think it's terrible. It would force hostile to announce their presence buy launching probes. it's just another tactic that people can use. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
395
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Posted - 2012.08.16 18:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sinwalker wrote: It is in fact terrible. Why would you want a hostile force to announce their presence? WH's are not intended to be carebearland where you are safe from all aggression because it's announced, you might as well put local back in if you want things to be "announced". It is far better to have dscan as a method of finding targets when possible. Cloak and dagger people. Go back to highsec if you want to live in safety.
Your argument fall apart when you consider that fights don't tend to happen at POS's. You will still be able to see ships in space doing sites, PI or whatever.
But, it's just an idea and it's not even mine. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
396
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Posted - 2012.08.16 23:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:
It seems to me you are either pretty new to w-space or not very experience at it. While its true that most fight dont happen at Force Field, it is the ability to see that they are present and the ability to see inside them that let half the fights in w-space happen. If you cloack a POS not only will it be found with probes but any corp who is half decent at pvp will just BM your POS for all the future times. Pow, cloaking pos wasted.
It seems to me that you missed the part of the discussions where it was suggested that POS's would no longer need to be anchored to a fixed location at a moon, requiring you to use combat scanner probes anyway.
Yes, cloaked POS's would effect the elite PVP practice of jumping in a wormhole, clicking d-scan and then watching a POS cloaked for 30 minutes, but maybe having to change tactics would make things more interesting.
Who knows what features and game mechanics ccp plan to change in the future... |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
397
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Posted - 2012.08.17 08:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Let me repost my last comment for those who may have missed it:
Rek Seven wrote:Gnaw LF wrote:
It seems to me you are either pretty new to w-space or not very experience at it. While its true that most fight dont happen at Force Field, it is the ability to see that they are present and the ability to see inside them that let half the fights in w-space happen. If you cloack a POS not only will it be found with probes but any corp who is half decent at pvp will just BM your POS for all the future times. Pow, cloaking pos wasted.
It seems to me that you missed the part of the discussions where it was suggested that POS's would no longer need to be anchored to a fixed location at a moon, requiring you to use combat scanner probes anyway. Yes, cloaked POS's would effect the elite PVP practice of jumping in a wormhole, clicking d-scan and then watching a POS cloaked for 30 minutes, but maybe having to change tactics would make things more interesting. Who knows what features and game mechanics ccp plan to change in the future... |
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